diff --git a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyEditablePostfixTemplate.kt b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyEditablePostfixTemplate.kt
index e5c604ec0a7c..1b0ab4eceaf6 100644
--- a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyEditablePostfixTemplate.kt
+++ b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyEditablePostfixTemplate.kt
@@ -8,9 +8,9 @@ import com.intellij.openapi.editor.Document
 import com.intellij.openapi.util.Conditions
 import com.intellij.psi.PsiElement
 
-class PyEditablePostfixTemplate(templateId: String, templateName: String, liveTemplate: TemplateImpl, example: String,
-                                conditions: Set<PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition?>, topmost: Boolean, provider: PostfixTemplateProvider,
-                                private val myBuiltin: Boolean) : EditablePostfixTemplateWithMultipleExpressions<PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition?>(
+open class PyEditablePostfixTemplate(templateId: String, templateName: String, liveTemplate: TemplateImpl, example: String,
+                                     conditions: Set<PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition?>, topmost: Boolean, provider: PostfixTemplateProvider,
+                                     private val builtin: Boolean) : EditablePostfixTemplateWithMultipleExpressions<PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition?>(
   templateId, templateName, liveTemplate, example, conditions, topmost, provider) {
 
   constructor(templateId: String, templateName: String, templateText: String, example: String,
@@ -25,9 +25,7 @@ class PyEditablePostfixTemplate(templateId: String, templateName: String, liveTe
     return expressions.filter { condition.value(it) }
   }
 
-  override fun isBuiltin(): Boolean {
-    return myBuiltin
-  }
+  override fun isBuiltin(): Boolean = builtin
 
   override fun isEditable(): Boolean {
     return expressionConditions.all {
diff --git a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyForPostfixTemplate.kt b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyForPostfixTemplate.kt
index 7847d57079e6..4ab2bb985a1d 100644
--- a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyForPostfixTemplate.kt
+++ b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyForPostfixTemplate.kt
@@ -1,32 +1,22 @@
 // Copyright 2000-2023 JetBrains s.r.o. and contributors. Use of this source code is governed by the Apache 2.0 license.
 package com.jetbrains.python.codeInsight.postfix
 
+import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.Template
+import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.impl.MacroCallNode
+import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.impl.TextExpression
+import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.impl.VariableNode
 import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.postfix.templates.PostfixTemplateProvider
-import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.postfix.templates.SurroundPostfixTemplateBase
-import com.intellij.lang.surroundWith.Surrounder
-import com.intellij.openapi.project.DumbService
-import com.intellij.openapi.util.Condition
 import com.intellij.psi.PsiElement
-import com.jetbrains.python.PyNames
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.PyExpression
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.types.PyABCUtil
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.types.TypeEvalContext
-import com.jetbrains.python.refactoring.surround.surrounders.expressions.PyForExpressionSurrounder
+import com.jetbrains.python.codeInsight.liveTemplates.CollectionElementNameMacro
 
+class PyForPostfixTemplate(name: String, provider: PostfixTemplateProvider) : PyEditablePostfixTemplate(
+  name, name, "for \$VAR$ in \$EXPR$:\n    \$END$", "for e in expr",
+  setOf(PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition.PyIterable()), false, provider, true) {
 
-class PyForPostfixTemplate(name: String, provider: PostfixTemplateProvider) : SurroundPostfixTemplateBase(
-  name, "for e in expr", PyPostfixUtils.PY_PSI_INFO, PyPostfixUtils.selectorAllExpressionsWithCurrentOffset(iterableFilter), provider) {
-  companion object {
-    val iterableFilter: Condition<PsiElement> = Condition { element ->
-      if (!DumbService.isDumb(element.project)) {
-        val expression = element as PyExpression
-        val context = TypeEvalContext.codeCompletion(expression.project, expression.containingFile)
-        val type = context.getType(expression) ?: return@Condition false
-        return@Condition PyABCUtil.isSubtype(type, PyNames.ITERABLE, context)
-      }
-      return@Condition false
-    }
+  override fun addTemplateVariables(element: PsiElement, template: Template) {
+    super.addTemplateVariables(element, template)
+    val name = MacroCallNode(CollectionElementNameMacro())
+    name.addParameter(VariableNode("EXPR", null))
+    template.addVariable("VAR", name, TextExpression("e"), true)
   }
-
-  override fun getSurrounder(): Surrounder = PyForExpressionSurrounder()
 }
diff --git a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyLenPostfixTemplate.kt b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyLenPostfixTemplate.kt
index f8ba67c3822e..2c17d24e8003 100644
--- a/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyLenPostfixTemplate.kt
+++ b/python/src/com/jetbrains/python/codeInsight/postfix/PyLenPostfixTemplate.kt
@@ -2,34 +2,12 @@
 package com.jetbrains.python.codeInsight.postfix
 
 import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.postfix.templates.PostfixTemplateProvider
-import com.intellij.codeInsight.template.postfix.templates.SurroundPostfixTemplateBase
-import com.intellij.lang.surroundWith.Surrounder
-import com.intellij.openapi.project.DumbService
-import com.intellij.openapi.util.Condition
-import com.intellij.psi.PsiElement
-import com.jetbrains.python.PyNames
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.PyExpression
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.types.PyABCUtil
-import com.jetbrains.python.psi.types.TypeEvalContext
-import com.jetbrains.python.refactoring.surround.surrounders.expressions.PyLenExpressionStatementSurrounder
 
-class PyLenPostfixTemplate(provider: PostfixTemplateProvider) : SurroundPostfixTemplateBase(
-  "len", DESCR, PyPostfixUtils.PY_PSI_INFO, PyPostfixUtils.selectorAllExpressionsWithCurrentOffset(sizedFilter), provider) {
-
-  override fun getSurrounder(): Surrounder = PyLenExpressionStatementSurrounder()
+class PyLenPostfixTemplate(provider: PostfixTemplateProvider) :
+  PyEditablePostfixTemplate("len", "len", "len(\$EXPR$)\$END$", DESCR,
+                            setOf(PyPostfixTemplateExpressionCondition.PyBuiltinLenApplicable()), false, provider, true) {
 
   companion object {
     const val DESCR = "len(expr)"
-
-    val sizedFilter: Condition<PsiElement> = Condition { element ->
-
-      if (!DumbService.isDumb(element.project)) {
-        val expression = element as PyExpression
-        val context = TypeEvalContext.codeCompletion(expression.project, expression.containingFile)
-        val type = context.getType(expression) ?: return@Condition false
-        return@Condition PyABCUtil.isSubtype(type, PyNames.SIZED, context)
-      }
-      return@Condition false
-    }
   }
 }
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/for/complexExpression_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/for/complexExpression_after.py
index 095f76498183..2379be64d9b3 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/for/complexExpression_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/for/complexExpression_after.py
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 def f(a:list, b:list, c:int):
-    for i in (2 * (a + b)) * c:
+    for e in (2 * (a + b)) * c:
         <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/for/function_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/for/function_after.py
index 00f85578daf0..f569ed486236 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/for/function_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/for/function_after.py
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 def f(a:list):
-    for i in a:
+    for e in a:
         <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/for/topLevel_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/for/topLevel_after.py
index 3200247ea62c..aa2aed878275 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/for/topLevel_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/for/topLevel_after.py
@@ -1,2 +1,2 @@
-for i in []:
+for e in []:
     <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/iter/complexExpression_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/iter/complexExpression_after.py
index 095f76498183..2379be64d9b3 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/iter/complexExpression_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/iter/complexExpression_after.py
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 def f(a:list, b:list, c:int):
-    for i in (2 * (a + b)) * c:
+    for e in (2 * (a + b)) * c:
         <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/iter/function_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/iter/function_after.py
index 00f85578daf0..f569ed486236 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/iter/function_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/iter/function_after.py
@@ -1,3 +1,3 @@
 def f(a:list):
-    for i in a:
+    for e in a:
         <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/iter/topLevel_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/iter/topLevel_after.py
index 3200247ea62c..aa2aed878275 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/iter/topLevel_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/iter/topLevel_after.py
@@ -1,2 +1,2 @@
-for i in []:
+for e in []:
     <caret>
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr.py
index af8589306742..1c4272544093 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-foo = "something".len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+foo = "something".len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr_after.py
index 06be9a9af121..cb8dd3cefa73 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/asExpr_after.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-foo = len("something")
\ No newline at end of file
+foo = len("something")
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/dict.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/dict.py
index 1b29cfbeea73..f33e6a732237 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/dict.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/dict.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-{"first": 1, "second": 2}.len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+{"first": 1, "second": 2}.len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/dict_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/dict_after.py
index 9edff2023988..c3ae34835504 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/dict_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/dict_after.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-len({"first": 1, "second": 2})
\ No newline at end of file
+len({"first": 1, "second": 2})
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/list.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/list.py
index 296d8fd7944a..5699b5155224 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/list.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/list.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-[1, 2, 3, 4].len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+[1, 2, 3, 4].len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/list_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/list_after.py
index fbdb4f03d5b8..c29a3dce85fb 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/list_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/list_after.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-len([1, 2, 3, 4])
\ No newline at end of file
+len([1, 2, 3, 4])
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized.py
index 252033ffa0e6..86a4192751ab 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized.py
@@ -2,4 +2,4 @@ class MyNotSizedClass:
     pass
 
 
-MyNotSizedClass().len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+MyNotSizedClass().len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized_after.py
index d24b65982292..fe11e3575a7c 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/notSized_after.py
@@ -2,4 +2,4 @@ class MyNotSizedClass:
     pass
 
 
-MyNotSizedClass().len
\ No newline at end of file
+MyNotSizedClass().len
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/sized.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/sized.py
index 4cdbd7d0227c..8eb82f016582 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/sized.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/sized.py
@@ -3,4 +3,4 @@ class MySizedClass:
         pass
 
 
-MySizedClass().len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+MySizedClass().len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj.py
index cd06e9509d10..96cd6f225e58 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj.py
@@ -3,4 +3,4 @@ class MySizedClass:
         pass
 
 
-MySizedClass.len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+MySizedClass.len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj_after.py
index 6f4fb66b3656..158bea8872c0 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/sizedClassObj_after.py
@@ -3,4 +3,4 @@ class MySizedClass:
         pass
 
 
-MySizedClass.len
\ No newline at end of file
+MySizedClass.len
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/sized_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/sized_after.py
index 5442242ca7f4..8a71461fe2f5 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/sized_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/sized_after.py
@@ -3,4 +3,4 @@ class MySizedClass:
         pass
 
 
-len(MySizedClass())
\ No newline at end of file
+len(MySizedClass())
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/string.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/string.py
index f2c3295699a7..637c5ec041e7 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/string.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/string.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-"something".len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+"something".len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/string_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/string_after.py
index 91e17003228f..18598875f7a4 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/string_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/string_after.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-len("something")
\ No newline at end of file
+len("something")
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple.py
index 9d244024fa0e..7a4a9aecde7e 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-(1, 2, 3, 4).len<caret>
\ No newline at end of file
+(1, 2, 3, 4).len<caret>
diff --git a/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple_after.py b/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple_after.py
index 69340e93c409..d5c14e084714 100644
--- a/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple_after.py
+++ b/python/testData/postfix/len/tuple_after.py
@@ -1 +1 @@
-len((1, 2, 3, 4))
\ No newline at end of file
+len((1, 2, 3, 4))